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Former U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan on why the post-Cold War world is over – and who is shaping the new rules of global business...
Apple SpotifyLeaders Unplugged is real talk with the impactful. Candid, honest, actionable – and fresh from behind the scenes. Presented by IMD in collaboration with Remote Daily. Hosted by IMD’s president, David Bach.
In this episode of the Leaders Unplugged podcast, former US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan reflects on America’s global role and the challenge of rebuilding trust with allies. What does it mean to lead in a world where the US – for so long the anchor of the international order – has become, in Sullivan’s words, “the biggest disruptor in the world”?
As National Security Advisor to Joe Biden, Sullivan spent four years trying to rebuild an America that led through alliances, competed with China on the strength of its factories as much as its laboratories, and contained threats through diplomacy. Then he watched much of it come apart.
The post-Cold War era, he tells David Bach, is over.
Sullivan discusses what’s gone wrong and what needs to be done to repair the damage. What comes next, he insists, is still there to be shaped. “That’s going to determine whether this is an era headed toward far deeper disorder, or one in which we’re able to build a new order.”

The hardest to watch, perhaps, are not the reversals, but the continuities: where the current US administration is pursuing the same diagnosis Sullivan reached, but with tools he finds damaging.
Both Biden and Trump accepted that America had made a flawed bet: that it could sustain “innovation dominance” while offshoring production. China understood something the US did not. “Building at scale would increasingly allow it to make innovation gains,” Sullivan said. “The United States has to concern itself with being able to build.”
That conviction shaped the targeted chip export controls Sullivan designed: a “small yard, high fence” that restricted a narrow set of critical technologies rather than blocking trade outright.
He points to the conflict with Iran as an example of a world becoming more volatile. A diplomatic off-ramp resembling the nuclear deal he helped negotiate under President Barack Obama had been, in his view, available before the conflict. Trump launched what Sullivan describes as “entirely a war of choice, an elective war.”
One consequence looks permanent. Iran has converted a theoretical capability, closing the Strait of Hormuz, into a proven one. The breakdown of key alliances under the Trump administration is where Sullivan sees the greatest cost, arguing that the president “does not believe that allies are assets; he thinks they are liabilities.”
He rejects the idea that trust can be restored through a single summit or symbolic reset. Future leaders, he argues, should focus on areas of cooperation, working through disagreements issue by issue to “put some wins on the board”.
Sullivan believes a new social compact, connecting technology, tax, and manufacturing, is required: “We need fundamentally new answers. Where does the human fit in, in an age of exploding technology?”
What comes next, he believes, is still there to be shaped. “That’s going to determine whether this is an era headed toward far deeper disorder, or one in which we’re able to build a new order.”
Leaders Unplugged features real talk with the impactful. Candid, honest, actionable, and fresh from behind the scenes. It is presented by IMD in collaboration with Remote Daily.

National Security Advisor to President Joe Biden from 2021 to 2025
Jake Sullivan served as National Security Advisor to President Joe Biden from 2021 to 2025, helping shape U.S. responses to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, strategic competition with China, the wars in the Middle East, and the growing intersection of technology and geopolitics. A longtime adviser to both Biden and Hillary Clinton, Sullivan was also one of the architects of the Iran nuclear deal during the Obama administration and a leading voice behind the idea of a “foreign policy for the middle class.”
Today, he is the inaugural Kissinger Professor of the Practice of Statecraft and World Order at Harvard Kennedy School, a faculty affiliate at Harvard’s Belfer Center, a Senior Fellow at the University of New Hampshire’s Carsey School of Public Policy, and co-host of the foreign policy podcast “The Long Game” alongside his former deputy Jon Finer.

President of IMD and Nestlé Professor of Strategy and Political Economy
David Bach is President of IMD and Nestlé Professor of Strategy and Political Economy. He assumed the Presidency of IMD on 1 September 2024. He is working to broaden and deepen IMD’s global impact through learning innovation, excellence in degree- and executive programs, and applied thought leadership. Recognized globally as an innovator in management education, Bach previously served as IMD’s Dean of Innovation and Programs.

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